Doubting is not a sin. It's waht we do with that doubt that can make it a sin. We can eiuther take the doubt to God and ask Him to help us deal with it or we can allow that doubt to root and grow. When this happens, then it is a sin.

That was very well stated Jag. Agreed.

Doubt is one of Satan's most effective weapons. He has been using it since the garden. He even tried it on Jesus in the wilderness. Doubt, fear and worry. When you feel them you can be pretty sure he's around. That's when prayer and faith are so important. I know this, because I face it almost everyday, and I could never handle it by my own strength. That's why I put a little more umph into "but,deliver us from the evil one".

What about 2 Kings 2:23-25? I've always doubted that a good and loving God would murder a bunch of little children for making fun of a bald guy, but I guess even God has his bad days.

I think there's a lesson there for you erik. I'll let you figure it out.

Eric - We welcome you anytime you want to have an honest, respectful discussion, but your snide and sarcastic barbs have become rather boring. Do you have an interesting contribution, an honest question, or a real question? Then welcome. Otherwise, surely you can find a more positive and productive use of your talents. And, like most other RFTH readers, I'm praying for you.

Erik, My Bible (NIV) says that the two bears mauled forty-two of the youths. Mauled does not exactly mean murdered does it? I believe God was giving them a warning not to mess with God's people. Grant has a point, maybe there is a message for you there. While you figure it out we will be praying for you.

Now, now, children, let Eric be. You know we are to endure a little discomfort in this life. He does sharpen our Bible knowledge when he asks these questions that he asks. Even Christ had Satan boring into his mind during the temptations there in the wilderness. Paul had a thorn in the flesh and God said "my grace is sufficient". Sometimes these devotions does not get responces but then our friend Eric shows up and people begins to write again. Maybe one day Eric will let his guard down and the Holy Spirit will arrest his heart and then he could be the next D.L. Moody, or Charles Spurgeon. Keep praying for him. Oh yes-- Hello there Eric.

Janice: the Hebrew word used in the passage is "baqa," which means to rip apart, to tear into pieces.

God- or rather God's Holy bears- ripped apart 42 little children. Nice God you've got there.

Again Erik I prayed for you last night & in fact again during a walk today. Have a good night...

Apparently you are well versed Erik but wish you would use that knowledge in a more positive and uplifting manner. Regardless, you have the right to your personal expressions. I just do not get why you chose this type of forum to do so. Is your goal to try and sway our faith?

I said this last week but I was 3 or 4 days late so I'll say it again, this time only one day late.
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls to the swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

Jesus said this 2000 years ago and Eric is our modern day application.

It is from Matt. 7:6. Eric is not an unbeliever searching for truth. He is an unbeliever who is against the word of God. As you can read, Eric tramples on everything we say and tries to tear us into pieces. Jesus was saying don't waste your breath, or in this case, your fingers, once you realize the situation. You can pray for him, that he will have a 'road to Damascus' event but sharing the gospel with him is like trying to witness to a dog. If you could see him he would probably have his head cocked sideways.

If you are a newcomer to this forum then he may seem like a good challenge or even stimulating for bible study. After a while he is like the possessed girl that followed Paul around in Acts 16:16-18. He is annoying and needs an exorcism. He is also like satan in Matthew 4:6 where he twists the word of God.

The hebrew word used for youths is na'ar. It always refers to males but can be different ages. These were not necessarily "little children". They could have been old enough to be soldiers.
Whatever the case, the lesson is this, Eric. God's punishment is sometimes harsh and, eventually, eternal. Like my parents used to say, if you don't like the punishment, don't disobey.

Keith R- would it bother you, or anyone else here, if they were little children?

It doesn't matter. God does not need my approval. I need His.

Is that what your problem is? Have you lost someone, maybe a child, in your family and you blame God for it?

I just feel bad for all those parents who lost their children to Holy Bear attack.

The scripture you're talking about Erik says they were youths. In my mind that's not children. It is someone old enough not to be arrogant & disrespectful. I am not going to argue with you about it, but nowhere does it say they were actually children. It was Elisha that ordered it in the Lord's name. I am certainly NOT saying that God did not condone it, only that it just doesn't say. He did not always support every deed that his prophets did, although in this case He did obviously allow it. That's all I have to say on the matter. You're going to think what you wish. By the way I prayed for you last night and on my walk today. Have a good day.

They were children. Little children. Some annotated Bibles and preacherly types try to explain away these verses by noting that na'ar was sometimes used of "youths,"- presumable that makes it better- if this was a bunch of juvenile delinquents or something, however the exact Hebrew phrase in the passage is "qatan na'ar," or "little children." "Little youths" doesn't make much sense unless they were a gang of midgets.

Erik, If you think about the passage logically there were forty-two youths because parents just don't let forty-two little children gather together and wander. They had to be organized because little children would be like a herd of cats---it just does not happen, they all go different ways. A commentary I read from, "The Bible Knowledge Commentary" by Walvoord and Zuck states perhaps they were young false prophets of Baal. The commentary also says that what they were saying was that Elisha should go on up to heaven like Elijah did (they did not want to hear anymore from him). So I gather from this that God being all knowing would have known that these young men were on the wrong track and He knew they would only be causing more trouble with no hope for redemption so given His authority He decided to let the bears have their way with them. I prefer to think of it as a warning to straighten up but if your knowledge and understanding of the Hebrew is correct then I guess God did not want to give them another chance. God alone knows how many chances He will give any of us. He knows if we are worth another chance. I am thankful He did not give up on me. I will keep praying for you, Erik.

Erik, It certainly does bother me, the idea of it being little children. It also bothers me quite a bit that all the children under the age of 3 or so died brutally when Herod found that the wise men had left without stopping by to tell him where to find the new king. I am uncomfortable when I read in the Old Testament about the intentional slaughter of entire towns and villages. Yet I know I do not know the whole story, I know that the Israelites waited in murderous slavery for 400 years because the pagans' evil had not yet reached it's full measure. Archaeology tells us that the Caananites buried the bodies of sacrificed children in the walls of their new homes for blessings, some of those "gods" "required" children to be burned alive. I like that the Bible doesn't pretend the tough stuff doesn't exist. It doesn't gloss over the hard questions.

The behavior of kids does reflect the behavior of their parents...we don't know who else those youths had ganged up on...or what else they had done. It bothers me but I know I don't know it all and I never will.

The Bible carefully spells out for us the ideas of honor, integrity, love, self-discipline, respect, community...which are central in our civilization - the same one that taught you the value of a child's life. Pagan cultures commit atrocities against innocent children. With all of it's seeming contradictions the Bible's way still wins.

Every time I have had a doubt about my faith I have sought answers in scripture and apologetics. My doubts have done nothing but ultimately strengthen my faith and understanding of God. Questions about verses such as the one Erik mentioned have lead me to try and understand things from multiple angles as well as from God's viewpoint. Stories of what appears to be an angry, sadistic God have been better understood and replaced with a more honest understanding of human nature and God's soverenty. Doubt, I hope, will lead you to a better understanding of God as well.

I never found the word qatan na'ar in my search for an explanation for these verses but I did find na'ar in several places. These Hebrew texts used it as young men, capable of standing in defense for their actions themselves, because they were over the age of twelve and under thirty. 1 Sam 20:35 tells us about a lad using the same Hebrew word, not a child.Keep in mind that Bethel was the center of idolatrous worship, children didn't just go around worshiping idols, they began this when they were older. They worshiped golden calves and other idols. These young men were not merely making fun of his baldness but showing severe disrespect for Elisha's message and Gods power. Cursed in the Hebrew means to call for Divine judgement. The number forty two indicates that there were some reasons to be concerned for the safety for the man of God. Yes I would be concerned if God only caused the bears to kill children, but this is not the case, but even with this said, when God dealt with families and tribes for disobediance there were children involved under the age of twelve. This is the price people pay when we don't do as God says for us to do. it would do people good to obey. The scripture says it is better to obey rather than to sacrifice. Hopefully this will shed some light on this subject, it is not meant to soften the mesasage as implied by Eric, it is just to clear up the thought that God picked on some small kids.

Jerry- read verse 23 again: "yatsa [there came forth] qatan na'ar [little children]. See blueletterbible.org for more resources.

Any way you look at it it's a ridiculous story. How did two bears kill 42 kids anyway? Did God give them special powers to make them super-fast child killers? Or maybe they were regular bears but God made the children's feet stick to the ground so they couldn't run away. I guess there are some things we'll just have to get to heaven to understand.

Such a situation would be a challenge for many church folk today. Tongues would wag and cluck - and folk would put 2 and 2 together and make 100. Faith is difficult - particularly for those who are alone, as many of us are. But the Lord does not castigate us for our doubts. James tells us, even to examine ourselves, to see if we are in the faith. Thank God for Jesus - the High Priest who was touched, with the feeling of our infirmity !