I felt the same way and 'feel' the same way about the legality of alcohol and recent NAE showing 40% of ministers think it is okay to drink socially or otherwise of course it is legal, but not helpful and what about offering drinks to rehabilitated alcoholic, Ministers should lead not follow.

I'm not going to touch abortion, but we don't legislate for Christians in the Western world. We legislate for a pluralistic society. We do what is right for everyone, not what is right for Christians, who are people who believe in fairy tales.

In Canada, we have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which states in one section that every Canadian has the exact same freedoms and rights regardless of, among other things, sexual orientation. But I guess it is different in your country, where you are allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

Good job.

Only one word for me.....Amen!

The point is, "Just because you have the right to do something doesn't meant it's the right thing to do." I don't see this as limited to the U.S. or Canada or anywhere else for that matter. Pricipalities and even empires have risen and fallen. The authority of God is eternal.

Amen!!!!

Reminds of a statement by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen:

Truth is the Truth, even if nobody believes it. Error is Error, even if everybody believes it.

We don't discriminate due to sexual orientation in the US, Jonathan. Any man can marry any woman, and vice versa, regardless of their sexual orientation. I'm only half kidding, because that is the case. Where it has been legislated that marriage is defined as being between a man and a woman, such as in California, the law also made provisions that same-sex couples have all of the same rights and benefits as married couples. In other words, the only difference is the word marriage. This is all we are protecting. It has nothing to do with rights. You cannot arbitrarily change the definition of something that for thousands of years has meant a union between a man and a woman. That is catering to a special interest group, not the other way around.

I don't understand why what you call it matters. If two unions are EXACTLY the same, the straight one is called "marriage" and the gay one is called "flukumaja", why it matters to anyone why flukumaja just isn't really "marriage".

So, Ricky if two gay guys are married (or whatever you want to call it) with the exact same rights as yourself, if they call it flukumaja, you're at peace and relaxed, but if they call it "marriage", your knickers are all in a knot??

It's an important distinction, Jonathan. It's obviously important to those on the other side of the issue, since they're not satisfied with equal treatment under the law. They want their relationship to be called a marriage. But, that's not what it is. Marriage has always been a union between a man and a woman. Others should not have a right to change what that is.

A committed, marriage relationship between a man and a woman is the best environment for kids to be raised, and the family unit is the cornerstone of culture and a stabilizing influence. Whether you are married or not, you and others in our culture benefit from the stability provided by the traditional family unit.

The point is, if it's just a word, it should not be important to Gays and Lesbians. But, it's not just a word, its an institution. I suppose they can start their own institution called "flukumaja".

Well said, Ricky.

This is one of my favorite Scriptures and it is so germane for today. We are being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. Help us, Lord to be grounded in the truth and as we have received Christ Jesus the Lord so walk in Him. BY FAITH!!!!
What a comfort to read the Word of God and know that it is true and the Word of the Lord endures forever. God is so good. We are always to submit to the authority of the law until it contradicts God's truth and then we must stand for the truth. My prayer tonight is that the regular believers that come to this devotion will pray earnestly tonight for those that do not embrace the truth of God's Word and have the urgency to return and attack. I am still believing God that these two precious ones will be saved and join us in heaven someday.

Just because something is "immoral" does not mean it should be illegal. Do we really want a law against adultry? And the ten commandments declares we should honor our fathers and mothers. DO we honestly want laws enforcing this one?

Even if homosexuality is immoral, there is just not a place for government here.

Thank you Sam for making some sense around here.

Ricky, and the others, I guess homosexuals are arguing for the "marriage" term because they just don't want to be treated differently, in any manner. I agree that it shouldn't matter if the legal rights are the same, but at the end of the day - it's just a word.

Tell me one way in which a gay marriage affects you.

Praying with you, Gail.

Agreeing with Sam. You want a law against lying? against taking the Lord's name in vain? Against worshiping false gods?

Try Saudi Arabia maybe.

In the early bible times, God refused the Israelites a king because they were to follow him and him only. When God finally did give them a king because they were too falling too far from him, he chose someone who would run the kingdoms by Gods laws and who would listen to Gods commands. So long story short, if we, as Christians, are to have a government, we should strive to have it as biblically based as possible.

Speaking of adultary, will the adulterous homosexual partner be entitley to "divorce" on the grounds of it? Will they be entitled to half the partnership assets?

Homosexual partnerships don't fit very well into our system for a reason; God didn't intend for them to.

Here is why this question is so difficult. We are having two different conversations at the same time. Is it moral? is a seperate question from Should it be legal? Folks, we don't want the government being the arbitor of these things. (Like they do in Iran.) If the government is allowed to enforce morals, what happens when our government is dominate by people who don't share our morals? Barbecue becomes illegal, women will be forbidden to go to college, and adulterers will be stoned.

That is what happens when you invite your government into your church.

Sam is correct. Government is there to take your tax money and build roads and bridges for you to drive on...not to tell you not to cheat on your wife.

Anyhow, the trend is in the opposite direction - decriminalization of marijuana, legalization of same-sex marriages, no-fault divorce, etc.

Now if only we could start making churches pay taxes...

Kevin, government is not for Christians, government is for people. If you don't get that, you don't get anything...

JCO,

Why is it important to you if the church pay taxes? They are a not for profit organization, like many other organizations. What about the American Indians? What about Disney World? These are deals that were made with the government...period. Then of course there is all the tax fraud that goes on, even in government! Let's start somewhere else before the churches.

Because I'm a rational good person, and I don't want good money wasted on promulgating superstitious nonsense.

If people would follow God's simple laws then mankind or government wouldn't have to continually be adding new laws many of which can't or won't be enforced.

JCO,
I understand the role of the government is to be for all people. But... As a Christian, I want everything to point others down the right path. My God hates sin, therefor I should hate sin too, and, why should I begin to believe that my government should support something I hate, and strongly believe that everyone else should hate too?

Because Kevin, most of the world doesn't believe in your God...

Religion is made up, and basing a society on made up stuff, isn't the right way to run things.

Becky, God commanded people to be stoned for working on Sunday...should we follow this law?

JCO,

Where in the bible does it say that God commanded stoning for working on Sundays? I can't seem to find it.
God sent Jesus to take away our sins for us because he knew we couldn't uphold the laws of the OT. We still can't, but we have a way to the Father through His Son, Jesus.

I know that God's punishment in the OT does seem harsh to us at times. But what some view as harsh was sometimes necessary to remove wicked people that basically lived to torture others with unspeakable atrocities. Some peoples were extremely wicked and would NOT change and yes because of this God wiped them from the face of the earth forever such as the Assyrians who were reportedly the most brutal people that ever lived. And yes I do believe the world would be a much better place if everyone followed the Ten Commandments and the biblical teaching for living our lives. I know that you disagree and that is your right. Not liking or disagreeing with something does not make it untrue. Just because you don't like the idea of God or that He doesn't handle things the way you think He should does not mean that He does not exist. Anyway, that is all I have to say on this subject. I am not going to play these games with you.

No games Becky, and you have to admit, God in the Bible seems a little incompetent.

Although I think the Biblical God is nasty, it has nothing to do with why I don't believe in him. Zero.

Kim,

"They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

I hope we can get this added to the US/Canadian criminal code! It would be SOOO amazing to base laws on the Bible, you're so right.

Bible crimes for which punishment is being stoned to death:

(from Steve Wells Dwindling in Unbelief blog)

"
For touching Mount Sinai Exodus 19:13
2. For taking "accursed things" Joshua 7:1-26
3. For cursing or blaspheming Leviticus 24:16
4. For adultery (including urban rape victims who fail to scream loud enough) Deuteronomy 22:23-24
5. For animals (like an ox that gores a human) Exodus 21:28
6. For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night Deuteronomy 22:13-21
7. For worshipping other gods Deuteronomy 17:2-5
8. For preaching the wrong religion Deuteronomy 13:5-10
9. For disobeying parents Deuteronomy 21:18-21
10. For witches and wizards Leviticus 20:27
11. For giving your children to Molech Leviticus 20:2
12. For breaking the Sabbath Numbers 15:32-56
13. For cursing the king 1 Kings 21:10
I thought it would be interesting to see how many times, and for what offenses, the Quran prescribed death by stoning.

The answer is zero. The Quran does not mention stoning as a punishment for any crime. "

Thanks Erik, I'm guilty of #2,3,7,8,9,12,13! (The last for mostly making fun of Prince Charles).

According to the Bible, I should definitely be stoned to death.

And you people think it's a good idea to entrench Christianity into our criminal code?! I think NOT.

No the quran only contains 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers some with the command to chop of heads and fingers and kill the infidels wherever they may be hiding. God's perfect desire for us was to live in peace but he was dealing with people who would not obey. He shows this desire through the 6th commandment - Do Not Kill If the Israelites had followed His Ten Commandments or even if we today followed His perfect desire for us, all this would be a mute point. Ultimately He provided a way for grace for everyone through Christ. John 8:7 "If any of you is without sin cast the 1st. stone." I believe there is a new devotion so that is where I'm putting my attention now. God bless