"Ex nihilo - nihilo"

Out of nothing - nothing.

If there ever was a time that there was nothing, then nothing is all that could be. There has to be an eternal, self-existant, uncaused cause.

As Christians, we believe that cause is the triune God of the Bible. We believe that the uncaused, eternal something is the supreme intelligence, and power without which nothing would exist. We call him God, because we believe that he has revealed himself to us in many ways. Our understanding of God grows with our study of his word and by his work in us through his Holy Spirit. His ultimate act of loving communication came when he entered our time and space by sending Jesus Christ to provide us the way of restoration, salvation and eternal life.

That's not science. God is so much more than science. God's work is what science attempts to understand. The more it understands, the more we are in wonder of it all.

If you read the actual Hebrew that Bryant is referencing here as "In the beginning" it's "Bereshet bara Elohim..." which, literally translated, means "A beginning: when the gods began to create.."

Also the passage from the gospel of John "and the word became flesh"...the actual Greek word used for "word" is "logos" which is a gnostic concept that has to do with the ordering principle of the universe.

The more you study the bible the more you realize it is much more complex- and more interesting- than those simple stories we hear from preachers.

It's also worthy to note that, like all languages, there are often a variety of meanings for specific words or phrases. Typically the meaning intended by the writer is derived from it's context either within the body of work, the common usage of the era, or other sensible inferences. In the case of the words at the beginning of Genesis 1 "Bereshet bara Elohim raysheeth" the common definition of ray-sheeth is "the beginning" or "the first" or even "first fruits" and the plural usage of Eloah "Elohim" was not uncommon to indicate a supremacy in the concept of God. It also reinforces the triune nature of God. In fact the text goes on to say that "the Word" was with God and "his spirit hovered over the waters" indicating that the multilple personages of God's being were present at the creation.
It is indeed more complex than the stories recounted in many teachings, however, I don't see that as a problem in terms of contradicting what God's word has to say about His nature.
Peace to all

No! First and foremost, if we need a cause, then the cause needs a cause. (Sorry, no exceptions granted for your neighbourhood friendly deity, giving your 'uncaused cause' argument no juice). To posit God as the creator of the universe is to only push the problem back one step further. There cannot be an infinite series of antecedent causes, and recognizing this fact should lead one to reappraise the validity of the initial question, not to attempt to answer it by stepping outside the universe into some gratuitously invented supernatural dimension where things don't need causes.

Secondly, I don't think that the universe requires some casual creation myth. It's juvenile, and it was man's first attempt to perhaps describe how we got here. But now it’s 2,000 years later, and informed people know that science has already disproved most of it (Adam/Eve, age of earth, origins of life through natural selection, etc.), and science will continue to pile on the evidence, not in favour of any creation myths.

So many religions have invented creation myths; many of them follow a similar theme. How about taking some time to read these and see that Christianity is by far not alone in making up some type of creation story? And that's all they are, stories. Nothing more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth

Sorry, but your argument is wrong. An uncaused eternally self-existent cause does not require a cause by definition.

There is no such thing as an absolute vacuum. Experimentally verified quantum theory shows that out of nothing, something ALWAYS comes, indeed it must come. Ex nihilo- omne.

Grant. What I'm saying is I don't think you can exclude God from the cause framework. God needs a cause. He just can't pop into existence out of nothing. Hence he doesn't exist ;)

And even if the universe had a cause, why God? Why not a million things you could dream up? Why does it have to be intelligent? Don't you think if Christianity had any knowledge on this topic, the whole world would be onside, including scientists? But no...they are not onside and continue on a quest for knowledge, not superstition.

Thanks Eric for putting me in touch with Ex nihilo- omne. I didn't know that much about that.

Isn't it interesting that God's word starts out..."In the beginning...," and not, "Before the beginning?" We can get so caught up analysing that one point that we totally neglect the rest of God's word. It all goes back to today's chosen verse, Luke 8:25, "And He said to them, 'Where is your faith?'" Very appropriate selection of a verse to reflect upon given the comments.

Eric and Jonathan still praying for you. Hopefully someday you'll come to the conclusion that all the intricate details of this incrediably complicated beautiful world and spectacular universe couldn't have possibly just fallen into place without a lot of help. God bless

It is completely amazing how something that bothers these two so much till they just can't stay away from it. I believe if they would be truthful and admit it, they are interested in God and everything that he has created. I could find a bunch of junk in a book and write it also but if I didn't believe it then I wouldn't bother it. I know that there are many different sites that atheists have but I do not go on those and bother people. God doesn't force himself on nobody so why should we? Erik and Jonathon, I hope you are happy with your lives and live a long time because the way you believe when you die, that is it, it is over. I do not want to distort your views because you are happy with it. I on the other hand do not believe that way so don't bother me, just let me believe how I choose to believe. It isn't doing you any harm and it doesn't cost you a thing so have a good evening since an atomic boom provided it for you. I will enjoy the evening that God has provided for me.
To all the Christians, I pray that God will bless you with a good nights sleep.

Amen Jerry.

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