This is a good explanation of Stockholm syndrome; only the conclusions he draws are exactly the opposite of the actual situation.

In the scheme that fundamentalists propose, God has sentenced EVERYONE to eternal punishment because the error of one man. I think that is wrong. I think that is evil. And yet Christians continue to heap praise on this malevolent bully who hold them over the fire, lest he decide to let go.

It is the Christians who are actually the victims of Stockholm syndrome.

"God has sentenced EVERYONE to eternal punishment because the error of one man."

Erik, are you suggesting that the only reason you are destined for eternal punishment is because of someone else?

Well John, let's say I was somehow able to live a sinless life, would I then get to go to heaven even if I didn't 'know' Jesus.

Erik, Satan schemes daily to possess the souls of the people God created. Sin and its consequences entered into the earthly world we know through the actions of one person but we each have our own personal sins that compound upon the first sin. We are held captive by Satan until we choose to follow Jesus Who came to earth to rescue us. This is basically the same as what Pastor Wright is saying but sometimes people don't "get it" the first time around and it bears repeating. I have chosen to follow Jesus, the rescuer, out into His divine route that leads to eternal life. It is my understanding that you have chosen the other way for now. Your heart remains confined in the net of one who does not seek the best for you. Still praying for your rescue to be hastened. May the divine clipping of the strings of the net that holds your heart begin today!

Sorry, but it's really not "good" news to say, "God intends to inflict the worst sort of pain on billions of people, for eternity, but you might be one of the lucky ones he spares."

I've actually written an entire book on this topic--"Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell," (for anyone interested, you can get a free ecopy of my book at my website: www.thereisnohell.com), but if I may, I'd like to share with you one of the many points I make in it to explain why.

Let's say you end up in Heaven trying to sing endless praises to a God who is, simultaneously, torturing billions of others. Unless you are given a de facto lobotomy (in which case, YOU would no longer be YOU, so you might as well have not had a soul to begin with), you would have to begin wondering, "When am I next?" and the joy of Heaven would be lost, replaced by gloom and foreboding! Why? Because you could never rely on a God who is so mean to be honest about making any exceptions.

After all, which is more difficult? For God to actively cause so much immense pain, for so many, for so long, or to go back on whatever promises he made to a few others that he would not put them in Hell too at some point?

It would be like accepting an invitation to live as a guest with one of these maniacal men we've been hearing about lately who kidnap, imprison, rape and torture young girls in secret basements. Can you imagine such a guy, simultaneously, having some other young lady as his dinner date, and treating her with respect and care? And even if he did for a while, wouldn't his true nature unleash itself upon her at some point in time, as it has on so many others? Of course!

Now, if you want some REAL good news, how about the fact that Jesus, originally, never taught there was a Hell; he couldn't have!

If one is willing to look, there's substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell. For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: "You don't know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!" Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!

True, there are a few statements that made their way into the copies of copies of copies of the gospel texts which place “Hell” on Jesus’ lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.

Bear in mind that the historical Protestant doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures applies only to the original autographs, not the copies. But sadly, the interpolations that made their way into those copies have provided a convenient excuse for a lot of people to get around following Jesus’ real message.

Sorry, Rick, to read your post and feel that it is not portraying God correctly. People choose to not follow God (the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit) and by their choice they go to hell walking or running by themselves. They are not dragged there by God. God comes to rescue but He is ignored while the person does their own thing even if it means jumping into a lake of fire.

I do have a question for others and I know it has been discussed to some extent here before. In the devotion it mentions that Jesus will "spare you from judgement". I have in the past memorized a Bible verse, John 5:24, "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death into life." At times I hear that all people will be under judgement and I am trying to reconcile what I hear about this. Does anyone have some more verses for me to consider?

First, I believe that the utlimate torture in hell is the eternal separation from God.

Rick has an interesting comment. He says Let's just assume I end up in Heaven trying to sing endless praises to a God who is,simultaneously, "torturing" billions of others (in hell).

So, should I conclude then that our God is not a loving God????

The above situation is analogous to a prodigal son living in proverty who does not want to have anything to do with his rich dad. The rich dad has many times tried to offer his help to save his son from proverty. But no, the prodigal son refuses his help and so he will be tortured in proverty for the rest of his life on earth with the separtion from his dad.

So, should we conclude that the rich dad is not loving and we should feel sorry for the prodigal son?

Don't misuse free will, my friend.

Love in Christ.

Thank you Rick, for a well reasoned response.

Even though we probably would would not agree on some things, what Rick says here makes sense. His approach assumes a more compassionate and loving God than the one who is usually described here.

My understanding is that the word Jesus (supposedly) uses for hell is "Gehenna," which was a sort of garbage dump outside Jerusalem. Maybe what he was actually saying is that without God you will be down in the dumps. I could get on board with that in a way.

Ray- (1) if the prodigal's father loved his son and was all powerful, would he condemn the son to poverty? or would he at least give the son some sort of material comfort, even if he rejected the father? I know that if my son rejected me I would be very hurt but would not wish a bad life on him.

(2) Your analogy assumes the son chooses to live in poverty. I don't think anyone would choose to live in eternal torture.

Erik, The God "who is usually described here" as you said is the God of the Bible. Again it seems you are wanting to take the place of God and construct a god of your own choosing. It is your choice. He lets you decide if you will go your own way or follow Him.

God is God. He is who he is. He has revealed that to us in his word. Man can reconstruct God in his own mind, but that does not change God.

Erik, people choose hell. It's as simple as that. God doesn't want anyone to go to hell. He's done all the work (on the Cross) so that you DON'T have to go. All you have to do is accept the gift. Obviously you haven't yet. You don't seem very fond of "God" as you see him. So a loving God allows you the choice of rejecting him, even though he loves you. Now that is love.

I just don't see why God, as awesome and powerful as he is, needs a bunch of people kissing up to him all the time. That sounds a lot more like something a human being would want. But you believe whatever makes you happy.

Yes, Erik, He is a personal God and just maybe He exhibits emotions because it shows us He relates to what we go through. He could be so far removed from us that He did not care to know what we go through but look what He did, He came down to earth to live as one of us. He knows what we go through. He sees your struggle to accept Him and understand why He does certain things. Stick with Him, continue to read His word and be open to what He reveals to you. If you come to Him with a wrong attitude, rejecting before paying attention to Him you are the one who loses out. It is an honor to "kiss up to Him" to use your terminology. I certainly would not want to be involved with a god I had to kiss down to.

It's so hard for us as parents to see our children derail their lives and make harmful decisions for not only themselves, but also everyone around them. It is also so incredibly painful when for no particular reason other than just a rebellious spirit that a child will be angry and turn from us as parents. I can only imagine how much more frustrating it must be for God to watch all of us ruin our lives or being full of anger & ignoring His word & Holy Spirit that if followed guides us to a peace joyfilled life by His saving grace through His Son Jesus. I pray Erik that You will find this life someday. God bless

The Stockholm syndrome is actually being subservient to the imaginary celestial dictatorship in the sky. Start to realize it is all man-made, and set yourself free!

Hello JCO. I know you'll be happy to know I've been praying for you every night still. Take care, God bless and I'm moving on.

Wow, thanks. Your prayers don't seem to be working, however. I wonder why that is...

You're here aren't you? God does things in His timing, not mine. I don't have any preconceived ideas about that. I also know that you have a will of your own and that God will not force you to accept Him. It is in His hands how He reveals himself to You and when,
and in your hands if you accept Him when that time comes. So in other words we do not use God like a magic wand or genie as some would assume. We pray and our prayers are always answered, but sometimes the answer is to wait and even sometimes no. I am the most grateful for the no answers in my life because in my youth I asked for some very foolish things. I know you might say that that's only because He doesn't exist, but when He does answer yes, you know. There is just no other explantation for it. Often when the answer is no, it is so obvious that He is closing so many doors that lead to a bad decision and leaves open a path that leads to success in whatever area you prayed about. I don't expect you to believe at this point. It is simply not time yet. I am moving on from this devotion now. Take care and God bless

CF, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about things you could not possibly know anything about. For example, you seem to know with certainty:

1.“God does things in His timing, not mine.” How do you know this? The great irony and gross contradiction of the religious mind is that on the one hand you state things like “God is beyond knowing, you can’t possibly know His plans, etc.” but yet in another breath, you state things like “I know he does things in His own timing”, or “I know He answers our prayers”, and other ill-conceived certainties. In reality, you know no such things with any degree of confidence. Does Allah answer the Muslim’s prayers? How about prayers to Zeus back in ancient Greece? Were they all answered? God does not exist, but even if He did, you wouldn’t possibly know this.

2. Good things that have happened to you are the result of prayer and you immediately attribute no other reasonable explanation. I could list hundreds of good things that have happened to me in my life, really wonderful things, all from zero prayer. However, if I was religious, I might attribute these things onto a deity, when in truth, these good things were a result of brains, good fortune, and sheer hard work and determination on my part.

Everyone has good and bad things happen to them — Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, Jews — everyone. To attribute that to prayer seems folly. Moreover, if your God is omniscient, and omnipotent, then it follows logically that a) He already knows what you want/need ; and b) He has the power to grant it. If He already knows what you desire and can easily grant it, and He has some “master plan”, as you suggest, then why the heck bother praying in the first place? Doesn’t it seem like a grand waste of time?
And the religious mind has yet to adequately explain illnesses that can’t be cured by medical science — amputation, HIV, herpes virus, and even male pattern baldness. If I was the best Christian in the world, and I did all the right things, I was worshiping Jesus around the clock, all the prayers I could muster up wouldn’t bring back my arm, get rid of my HIV, cure my herpes, or put hair back on my head. However, when the Christian prays for his or her cancer to get better, and it does, they immediately think “thank God” when an atheist can, and does, also naturally recover from cancer.

I am through commenting on this subject myself, but I will post someone else's quote- "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. I prefer the latter"- by the late scientist Albert Einstein. Another quote is "Science is no more than an investagation of a miracle we can never explain, and art is an interpretation of that miracle" by Ray Bradbury Anyway I find it interesting that even Albert Einstein believed in miracles. I'm not going to try to continue this discussion and try to argue you into believing. Like I said before it's in the Lord's hands to reveal Himself to You.

"I am through commenting on this subject myself."

This just means you can't refute my points.

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

That's fine, I tend to attribute my good fortunes internally, you attribute them externally, which to me seems like you don't give yourself enough credit. Also, we all konw that Einstein was again refering to the wonder of the universe and that being the "miracle", not the power of prayer - which is clearly did not believe in.

"I find it interesting that even Albert Einstein believed in miracles."

No he didn't, at least not in the kind you are talking about. (Jesus miracles, vs. miracles of nature and the universe).

Einstein was certainly not a Christian (he was Jewish) and not even Jewish in belief. He was a deist at best.

I just briefly need to chime in here and say that to suggest Einstein believed in "miracles" is the grossest perversion of that quote and a slander on that man's memory.

I like Mr. Einstein's quote so much I'll have to post it on facebook as one of my favorites. I'm like him I prefer to consider all things a miracle! Thanks Albert :-)

Jonathan??? You're back? This dialog is pointless. We'll never move to the "dark side."

Back for now. I tend to come back here when you guys grossly pervert science, and its principles, with your complete lack of understanding and ignorance of the entire field of knowledge.

But I suppose there's no point really explaining it. I could talk to I'm blue in the face, and you'd come back and still say "yeah, evolution is ONLY A THEORY."

I don't consider atheism the "dark side". As a matter of fact, I consider it freedom from religious oppression, indoctrination, irrational thinking, nonsensical ideas, and suppressed learning.

CF, if you wanto to quote a pantheist/deist (in my view, an atheist), then please be my guest. But remember that you are misinterpreting, and taking out of context, AE's statements.

Einstein believed in "Spinoza's God". Spinoza believed God exists only philosophically and that God was abstract and impersonal.

So stop trying to hijack great minds as "proof" for your 2,000 year old nonsense. Quote a nice lady from Alaska, on the other end of the intellectual spectrum, Sarah Palin, from now on.

Said what he said, didn't mean it, shouln't have said it- Enuff said.

He did mean what he said, but you are misinterpreting what he meant. If you think he was referring to God induced Jesus miracles, you are grossly in error. Everything that AE ever said on religion would suggest the opposite.

I never incenuated at all that he was a born again Christian, but if he said that everything is a miracle, it just so happens the definition of miracle is -" an event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held TO BE supernatural in origin OR an act of God." So at the very least he believed in the supernatural and frankly I believe he was smart enough to know that people would assume the supernatural part would be assumed to be God. So again if he didn't mean it (which I think he did) he was intelligent enough to have not said it. Besides from my study in the past he made a speach at some universary(forgot where) talking about his belief in God that somehow athiests seems to forget about. It's very possible as he grew older and wiser he realized there was a God. Anyway he Said what he Said and whatever you want to try to tack on to such a straightforward comment is up to you. Still praying for you and I'm moving on since I know you won't admit that his simple statement means just what it says. God bless and you'll just have to argue with yourself about it because I'm moving on and this time I mean what I say :-)

It doesn't matter what you call it, or how you label it, but if Evangelical Christianity is a 10, and atheism a 0, Einstein was a "1", a "2" at best, based on everything he said. And based on the fact that the vast majority of scientists of the modern era (please don't quote Newton and others) are atheists.

It's natural where Eistein has the reputation as "the smartest man that ever lived" that everyone wants to claim him as their own. But the hard cold truth is he was obviously not a Christian, and not even a Jew in his beliefs. Maybe he wasn't a hard atheist either, but really just seems to worship the beauty and wonder of the universe - something all scientists do, or they wouldn't be scientists in the first place.

But AE has a reputation that is perhaps not even warranted. How does one measure intelligence? Sure he discovered new laws that gave us tremendous insight into the workings of the universe, but there have been many brilliant men throughout the ages. Maybe Beethoven was more brilliant in his field of music than AE was in his field of science.

So it doesn't really matter what AE thought. He doesn't have the final say on what is true and what is not true.